ninme

I’ve been trying to link to this all week.

Opinion Journal (7.22) - The Romance of Economics: Milton and Rose Friedman: Dinner with Keynes? Yes. War with Iraq? They disagree. BY TUNKU VARADARAJAN

PALO ALTO, Calif.–

Off to a good start.

– One doesn’t interview a man like Milton Friedman–the Nobel laureate in economics in 1976 and among the five or six most consequential thinkers of the 20th century–without doing some assiduous homework.

That part’s funny, but I’ll skip it.

I made a reflexive apology for not being an economist myself. “You mean you’re not a trained economist,” was Mr. Friedman’s comeback. “I have found, over a long time, that some people are natural economists. They don’t take a course, but they understand–the principles seem obvious to them. Other people may have Ph.D.s in economics, but they’re not economists. They don’t think like an economist. Strange, but true.”

Not so strange, really. So what was I doing/reading/listening to the other day, and they were saying that the word Doctor just means “teacher” so if you’re a Doctor of, in this case, economics, that just means you’re qualified to teach economics. And, as they say, those who can’t do, teach*.

Mrs. Friedman settled herself in a chair, her eyes twinkling, and my questioning resumed. If they were to throw a small dinner party–indoors!–for Mr. Friedman’s favorite economists (dead or alive), who’d be invited? Gone was his tonguetied-ness of a moment ago, as he reeled off this answer: “Dead or alive, it’s clear that Adam Smith would be No. 1. Alfred Marshall would be No. 2. John Maynard Keynes would be No. 3. And George Stigler would be No. 4. George was one of our closest friends.” (Here, Mrs. Friedman, also an economist of distinction, noted sorrowfully that “it’s hard to believe that George is dead.”)

That’s my kind of interview question. So, the best bit:

Is immigration, I asked–especially illegal immigration–good for the economy, or bad? “It’s neither one nor the other,” Mr. Friedman replied. “But it’s good for freedom. In principle, you ought to have completely open immigration. But with the welfare state it’s really not possible to do that. . . . She’s an immigrant,” he added, pointing to his wife. “She came in just before World War I.” (Rose–smiling gently: “I was two years old.”) “If there were no welfare state,” he continued, “you could have open immigration, because everybody would be responsible for himself.” Was he suggesting that one can’t have immigration reform without welfare reform? “No, you can have immigration reform, but you can’t have open immigration without largely the elimination of welfare.

Ahhh, someone’s said it. And isn’t it good.

“At the moment I oppose unlimited immigration. I think much of the opposition to immigration is of that kind–because it’s a fundamental tenet of the American view that immigration is good, that there would be no United States if there had not been immigration. Of course, there are many things that are easier now for immigrants than there used to be. . . .”

Did he mean there was much less pressure to integrate now than there used to be? Milton: “I’m not sure that’s true . . .” Rose (speaking simultaneously): “That’s the unfortunate thing . . .” Milton: “But I don’t think it’s true . . .” Rose: “Oh, I think it is! That’s one of the problems, when immigrants come across and want to remain Mexican.” Milton: “Oh, but they came in the past and wanted to be Italian, and be Jewish . . .” Rose: “No they didn’t. The ones that did went back.”

So I was going to just say that the last three paragraphs are funny, but I’ll skip to the last two (leaving the last line, though). After an interesting take on the Republicans and spending…

Mr. Friedman here shifted focus. “What’s really killed the Republican Party isn’t spending, it’s Iraq. As it happens, I was opposed to going into Iraq from the beginning. I think it was a mistake, for the simple reason that I do not believe the United States of America ought to be involved in aggression.” Mrs. Friedman–listening to her husband with an ear cocked–was now muttering darkly.

Milton: “Huh? What?” Rose: “This was not aggression!” Milton (exasperatedly): “It was aggression. Of course it was!” Rose: “You count it as aggression if it’s against the people, not against the monster who’s ruling them. We don’t agree. This is the first thing to come along in our lives, of the deep things, that we don’t agree on. We have disagreed on little things, obviously–such as, I don’t want to go out to dinner, he wants to go out–but big issues, this is the first one!” Milton: “But, having said that, once we went in to Iraq, it seems to me very important that we make a success of it.” Rose: “And we will!”

I like Rose.

* Except medical doctors.